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Online RobZ900

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Re: Pending Suspension Upgrade
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2019, 05:05:37 PM »
*Originally Posted by Simoncrp [+]
Nearly double my weight!  :008:

Yup, at 6 6 and 18 stone, Im not a small guy. Something tells me that I dont fit the stereotypical, 12 stone, 5 foot Japanese man that the suspension was intended for lol.
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Online RobZ900

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Re: Pending Suspension Upgrade
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2019, 05:51:03 PM »
*Originally Posted by zed9 [+]
If I'm not mistaken, you can change your springs leaving your forks on the bike. You'd have to support it and it would be messy.
Ask Matt about it.

Just spoken to the suspension who conveniently only lives a few miles away. Asked him what he thought was the best option with going for an aftermarket setup. He thinks that I could get away with just a new spring on the shock and a set of springs and different fluid in the forks. He was saying that they tend to be quite heavy on the valving in these setups as its only the one leg doing all the work, so should be able to leave the valving as it is and still get a relatively decent setup on a budget. For a ride in, ride out service, with him taking the bike apart, doing the above work and setting up sag and damping correctly, hed charge me 500. To put that in perspective, the Nitron NTR1 shock is 438, so a little more than Nitrons basic shock to get the suspension correctly sprung and acting more like it should. Doesnt sound too bad to me.
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Offline Forks-by-Matt

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Re: Pending Suspension Upgrade
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2019, 10:23:05 PM »
*Originally Posted by RobZ900 [+]
He was saying that they tend to be quite heavy on the valving in these setups as its only the one leg doing all the work,
He hasn't actually looked at the internals then. That statement is somewhat correct for the FZ09. Not so the Z900. If you look around there's a thread or two where the actual valving is disclosed, and other threads where people have posted that they've had to close the fork rebound basically all the way to get any damping out of it etc.

You'll get a hell of a lot more value out of that 500 by buying the K-Tech Razor shock and putting in stiffer fork springs till you find funds to fix the forks for real's.

The OE shock is total crap. The forks are livable. Heavier fork oil (say 26cSt@40) will help in the rebound department but will make bump absorption rather worse. Which evil can you live with? A bit more chop or pitchy/bouncy front-end?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 10:29:17 PM by Forks-by-Matt »
Good suspension doesn't have to be expensive.

Offline zed9

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Re: Pending Suspension Upgrade
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2019, 01:09:10 AM »
The right fork is just a pogo stick, no valving.
When I had the forks off the bike I took the left fork and pressed it against the floor of my shed. No matter how I turned the rebound screw there seemed to be no change in how the fork rebounded. So my novice suspension person conclusion is...there is little rebound damping in the factory fork.
When I got them back I tried the same test before I installed them. Ah, what a difference, came up nice and controlled.

RobZ...If funding is an issue that's one thing but if not, you have to ask yourself how long do you want to continue on your inadequate suspension?

Online RobZ900

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Re: Pending Suspension Upgrade
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2019, 04:47:02 AM »
*Originally Posted by Forks-by-Matt [+]
You'll get a hell of a lot more value out of that 500 by buying the K-Tech Razor shock and putting in stiffer fork springs till you find funds to fix the forks for real's.

So put a decent shock on the bike and do what he was talking about with the forks for the time being, or just different springs and leave the oil as it is?

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Online RobZ900

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Re: Pending Suspension Upgrade
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2019, 04:55:41 AM »
*Originally Posted by zed9 [+]
The right fork is just a pogo stick, no valving.
When I had the forks off the bike I took the left fork and pressed it against the floor of my shed. No matter how I turned the rebound screw there seemed to be no change in how the fork rebounded. So my novice suspension person conclusion is...there is little rebound damping in the factory fork.
When I got them back I tried the same test before I installed them. Ah, what a difference, came up nice and controlled.

RobZ...If funding is an issue that's one thing but if not, you have to ask yourself how long do you want to continue on your inadequate suspension?

Yes and no on the funding issue. No in the sense of I could find 500 over the next couple of months and have said work done. Yes because it would take me a fair amount of time to put together the 1500+ for a decent shock and a cartridge kit. As Im typing this though, Ive just remembered that I found a cartridge kit the other night when I was having a look around at parts for the bike. Any experience of Andreani suspension? They do a cartridge kit for the Z900 for 499 including the correct weight springs, as opposed to the 900 for the Nitron cartridge kit. Obviously Id have to pay someone to fit them, but a 400 saving would make a decent suspension setup more achievable, that is if theyre any good.
Motorcyclist - noun (moh-ter-sahy-klist)
: a person willing to take a container full of flammable liquid, place it on top of a hot, moving engine and then put the whole lot between their legs!

Offline zed9

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Re: Pending Suspension Upgrade
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2019, 01:33:52 PM »
*Originally Posted by RobZ900 [+]
Yes and no on the funding issue. No in the sense of I could find 500 over the next couple of months and have said work done. Yes because it would take me a fair amount of time to put together the 1500+ for a decent shock and a cartridge kit. As Im typing this though, Ive just remembered that I found a cartridge kit the other night when I was having a look around at parts for the bike. Any experience of Andreani suspension? They do a cartridge kit for the Z900 for 499 including the correct weight springs, as opposed to the 900 for the Nitron cartridge kit. Obviously Id have to pay someone to fit them, but a 400 saving would make a decent suspension setup more achievable, that is if theyre any good.
You would have to ask Matt for any input on suspension brands.
Though I have no problem taking apart the forks cleaning and replacing seals and oil, I don't know a thing about the amounts of shims needed for proper damping. There are kits you can by and the companies make suggestions on how to set up your shim stack but the also say something like..if you're not happy with the setup try adding/removing shims. Well I can tell you right now I have no intention of pulling apart my forks several times to get it right. That's why I paid an expert. It's done, I'm happy, I won't have the forks off until I need to replace the seals.

You also have to figure out what kind of rider you are. Me, I like tight slow speed corners rather than riding like I'm on the IOM TT, John McGuinness I am not.

Installing the proper springs is cheap and you won't have to back track. See how you like it. It may not be the ultimate solution but it may suit your riding style just fine. You've gone this long with the undersprung bike so springs alone would be a great improvement.

Do you not have a riding buddy that is handy with a wrench? Or host a fork spring party. You'll find that some riders will work for beer and pizza. Or just peruse YouTube for fork rebuilding videos. You can just replace your fork springs and top off your oil with everything in place.

Or, Also, it would be less expensive if you removed your forks and gave them to a suspension expert rather than give him the whole bike.

Offline Forks-by-Matt

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Re: Pending Suspension Upgrade
« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2019, 11:11:32 PM »
*Originally Posted by RobZ900 [+]
Any experience of Andreani suspension? They do a cartridge kit for the Z900 for 499 including the correct weight springs, as opposed to the 900 for the Nitron cartridge kit.
Andreani makes a pretty decent product. Their fit and finish isn't up to Nitron or Ohlins grade but that's why the multi-hundred price delta. If you go with the Andreani make sure to run a ~8cSt@40 oil in the compression leg. The Rebound leg can run the specified 19cSt@40 (typically the Ohlins R&T43) oil.

Obviously Id have to pay someone to fit them
Yes you will. The install is not trivial on the previously 'dead' leg. You're probably looking at $200 minimum for the install.

If you do just the fork springs for now, that's pretty cheap. Toss the current oil and re-fill with say Maxima Racing Fork (125/150, 7w) and see how you like it.
Good suspension doesn't have to be expensive.

Offline Z900-WA

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Re: Pending Suspension Upgrade
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2019, 09:33:24 PM »
1st post. Apologies if doing incorrectly.

This is the most informative forum I've found regarding suspension setup & mods for my 2018 Z900.

I know the stock suspension is not well suited for my intended use of the bike in conjunction with my size & weight. I'm 6'1" & approximately 215 lbs. Therefore, I'm currently limited to back roads on the weekends for any high speed, aggressive riding (which is my natural style) but I'm anxious to work in monthly track sessions.

So, My 1st question is which end I should upgrade first, The front or rear? Which will have the most significant improvement for handling during aggressive riding?

Second, (especially if the answer is to only do them together) what is the most cost effective strategy for upgrading, springs or revalving etc?

Ideally, I'd prefer to only have to upgrade each end once & also stay under $1000 including labor if possible (though I'm not sure what that would run around here in WA state U.S.

I swapped to Q3+'s & got rearsets which were both solid improvements, but I'm quickly realizing that as I get better and go faster, the problems with the stock suspension just seem to get worse & worse, regardless of the settings adjustments.

Any insights or advice would be most appreciated. Thanks

Offline Forks-by-Matt

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Re: Pending Suspension Upgrade
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2019, 09:58:23 PM »
*Originally Posted by Z900-WA [+]
So, My 1st question is which end I should upgrade first, The front or rear?
Toss-up but I'd lean toward shock. A badly behaved shock upsets the entire chassis more so than a fork that doesn't handle bumps properly. That said, "going fast" normally means trying to read the road thru your grips which is directly attributable to the front tire/fork performance. So a case could easily be made for doing the front first.

Second, (especially if the answer is to only do them together) what is the most cost effective strategy for upgrading, springs or revalving etc?
Swap out current cartridge for one that has been re-valved. About $130 + fluids + install. With new springs you should be  in the neighborhood of $300-350 all-in.

K-Tech Razor-Lite shock for $400 + install. So depending on how much you can do yourself or need pay a shop, you should have a "new" bike comfortably under $800.
Good suspension doesn't have to be expensive.