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Offline 20zRider

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  • Bike: 2020 Z900 ABS
  • Town / City: Arizona
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Power Commander map looks lean?
on: May 30, 2020, 08:02:56 PM
First off I want to say that I know next to nothing about Air Fuel tuning, but I have a question about the akra and leo vince maps that you can get for the pc5. If putting on a full exhaust makes the bike run lean, why are they taking away fuel on a majority of the rpm range on the map? I concede that the dynojet knows way more about tuning and creating maps than I ever could. But I just installed a pc5 last night because everyone says the full system makes the bike run lean. But looking at the map it seems that it is going to make it more lean. I have a Chinapovic system on the bike so I understand that the supplied maps on dynojets website aren't tuned to this system, but should be within an acceptable range. Can someone who has a better understanding of fuel mapping shed some light for me please? I also included a picture of the map to give you an idea of what I'm looking at.

https://imgur.com/a/caKyGWe

Offline Cazzy_R

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Re: Power Commander map looks lean?
Reply #1 on: May 30, 2020, 10:44:16 PM
*Originally Posted by 20zRider [+]
........because everyone says the full system makes the bike run lean

 Don't listen to "everyone". The 2017-2019 bikes run rich. It's been known about on here since 2017.
 Because of this the bike is safe to on run full system without a fuel module or an ECU flash.
 No doubt, it can be improved with either but its not essential.
Cazzy_R

Tighten it 'til it strips then back it off half a turn.

Offline 20zRider

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Re: Power Commander map looks lean?
Reply #2 on: May 30, 2020, 10:47:42 PM
*Originally Posted by Cazzy_R [+]
Don't listen to "everyone". The 2017-2019 bikes run rich. It's been known about on here since 2017.
 Because of this the bike is safe to on run full system without a fuel module or an ECU flash.
 No doubt, it can be improved with either but its not essential.

Im on a 2020, is there any differences due to the euro emissions on this model? I was hoping to get some mid range torque back as Ive noticed a drop in power after adding the full exhaust. I should just take the bike in to have them dyno and time the pc5.

Offline Cazzy_R

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Re: Power Commander map looks lean?
Reply #3 on: May 30, 2020, 11:00:33 PM
*Originally Posted by 20zRider [+]
Im on a 2020, is there any differences due to the euro emissions on this model? I was hoping to get some mid range torque back as Ive noticed a drop in power after adding the full exhaust. I should just take the bike in to have them dyno and time the pc5.

The 2020 is a bit of an unknown quantity with the added complication that the US model is a bit of a hybrid as it uses the "old" exhaust system from the 17-19 bike. It could well be running a different ECU map to the world/euro spec model too. Who knows?
Anyway if you are considering a dyno session that would definitely be the best route to take. For your own peace of mind if nothing else.
Also if you report back your findings you would be providing a valuable service for the other US 2020 model owners considering a full system.
Hopefully the resulting warm glow inside from your selfless gesture will help heal the financial wounds.  :047:
Cazzy_R

Tighten it 'til it strips then back it off half a turn.

Offline Swingin Spanners

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Re: Power Commander map looks lean?
Reply #4 on: May 31, 2020, 01:00:23 AM
There are many reasons a manufacturer would set a 'rich' map. It's unusual that a petrol N/A engine would be a bit on the fuely side of stoichiometric, with EPA emissions benchmarks so strict and policed after the whole Volkwagen diesel gate saga.

The first thing that comes to my mind is a bit 'rich' is a safe map, particularly if you expect a lot of your customers to put a slip on/exhaust mods etc. Petrol N/A engines usually have cooler piston crown temperatures when running a bit richer than stoichiometric. These engines may be able to meet EPA benchmarks with that setup and using the passive air injection thing.

The map you've linked to looks fairly typical when adjusting AFR to suit exhaust or intake changes. It pulls a bit out, possibly due to the exhaust gas flow characteristics in the mid-range engine speed and puts a bit more in at the max engine speed, probably due to more exhaust gas flow at high engine throttle setting/rpm.

As mentioned above, the only way to be sure is to chuck a 2020 on a dyno and play around with it.

AFR and mapping can be a polarising subject that causes a lot of debate, so I'll leave it at that. The bulk of my experience is on forced induction compression ignition engines, so angry big cam N/A engines like the z900 are not my forte. The people at 2wheeldynoworks are probably a good place to go for expert advice, specific to your bike.