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Offline zed9

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Re: NEW Dave Moss z900 Tuning Video
Reply #40 on: July 06, 2020, 02:07:23 PM
*Originally Posted by RobZ900 [+]
Yeah I found similar. On the stock tyres, I was getting right out to the edge and wasnít even riding aggressively. Worth noting is that the Z is my first bike after a 10 year break from bikes, so I was getting used to riding again. Since then, obviously Iíve become more comfortable on a bike again but after fitting the road 5ís, I never get right to the edge and I ride the bike harder now than I used to. Just curious with the whole suspension setup if my rebound needs a click either way to smooth out the wear at the inner edge of the chicken strip, but donít know which way it would need to go to reduce the wavy effect. As above, itís barely wavy, but wondering if another click would smooth it out more.
The only time I have scrapped pegs, got my knee down, and completely worn off my chicken strips was taking in an advanced riding school. Outside of that I don't track my bike, only road riding, so even ridden aggressively on country backroads I never get my speeds and lean angles low enough to go to the very edge.
Though I'll admit, I will examine my edges after a good ride in the twisties and can see a few scrapes to the edge, which makes me happy, but I don't do it consistently enough to keep it permanently roughed up. So I always show a half inch of chicken strip. 🐣 Whatever.

As for your suspension settings, until you get it sprung for your weight and get it properly valved there's not a whole lot you can do. I didn't test my rear shock when I removed it from the bike but I did my left fork and can tell you this... there is practically no rebound adjustment from the factory. No matter how much or how little you turn the clicker the rebound rate pretty much stays pitifully the same. Heavier oil may help.

With me, I sent my entire suspension out to an expert who resprung and revalved the OEM equipment for me. I'm a pretty decent rider but spending big money on Ohlins cartridges and shock won't do me any more good then what I have now. Maybe others but not me.
I'm a big proponent of "If you want a faster bike, become a better rider".
Bolt on high performance exhaust and $2500 in Ohlins suspension won't make me any faster.

Online Cazzy_R

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Re: NEW Dave Moss z900 Tuning Video
Reply #41 on: July 06, 2020, 02:10:41 PM
*Originally Posted by RobZ900 [+]
I do the same Cazzy, got notes on my phone of current settings - preload, sag, rebound and compression clicks etc. Always easy to revert back then. Only downside with my shock is that there isnít any indication of which way is +/- for rebound.

 If you imagine "screwing" the adjusting knob in, "clockwise" as if tightening a screw or nut, towards the shock body then that will be +.  :028:
Cazzy_R

Tighten it 'til it strips then back it off half a turn.

Online RobZ900

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Re: NEW Dave Moss z900 Tuning Video
Reply #42 on: July 06, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
*Originally Posted by Cazzy_R [+]
If you imagine "screwing" the adjusting knob in, "clockwise" as if tightening a screw or nut, towards the shock body then that will be +.  :028:

Thatís exactly how I look at it. While standing at the back of the bike, turning the adjuster clockwise towards the shock body is +. Easy enough to remember, but a bit disappointing that they couldnít put a mark on it.
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Online 3alfa3

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Re: NEW Dave Moss z900 Tuning Video
Reply #43 on: July 06, 2020, 02:18:20 PM
Its simple: zero for preload is fully CCW, and for rebound fully CW.

Offline JohnCW

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Re: NEW Dave Moss z900 Tuning Video
Reply #44 on: July 06, 2020, 02:45:21 PM
*Originally Posted by RobZ900 [+]
just curious if my settings can be improved at all. Iím pretty happy with it as it is, so might just experiment by 1 click to see if thereís any difference, I just didnít know if I should start with faster or slower rebound, though as John has said, the rebound adjuster on the stock shock affects compression too, so maybe not as simple an answer as I initially thought it might be.

My suggestion is just set rebound off the bike (after a bit of a ride to warm up the oil) using a video such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXDL_jREhEE as your guide.  Then on the road focus solely on tinkering with compression dampening.  You have I believe low and hi speed dampening adjusters.  Initially set both the same and move them up and down in unison till you find the best result.  From there experiment with only one up or down from that position.

If you constantly change rebound you can be going around in circles as you are constantly also affecting hi/low compression.  Better to find a rebound speed that works (remember the old suspension saying regarding rebound when in doubt "less is more") and focus on getting the optimum compression settings for that rebound setting. 

And tip of compression damping, lets say you've set a good fast rebound and are experiencing a harsh ride.  Don't assume its excessive compression damping.  It maybe is, but it can also be, and most likely to be, insufficient compression damping.  Seems counter intuitive, but with insufficient compression damping the spring gets driven up further and faster giving that harsh feeling.  If winding back compression damping doesn't solve a harsh ride, screw it up, its most likely insufficient compression that is the problem.

Online RobZ900

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Re: NEW Dave Moss z900 Tuning Video
Reply #45 on: July 06, 2020, 03:17:29 PM
*Originally Posted by JohnCW [+]
My suggestion is just set rebound off the bike (after a bit of a ride to warm up the oil) using a video such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXDL_jREhEE as your guide.  Then on the road focus solely on tinkering with compression dampening.  You have I believe low and hi speed dampening adjusters.  Initially set both the same and move them up and down in unison till you find the best result.  From there experiment with only one up or down from that position.

If you constantly change rebound you can be going around in circles as you are constantly also affecting hi/low compression.  Better to find a rebound speed that works (remember the old suspension saying regarding rebound when in doubt "less is more") and focus on getting the optimum compression settings for that rebound setting. 

And tip of compression damping, lets say you've set a good fast rebound and are experiencing a harsh ride.  Don't assume its excessive compression damping.  It maybe is, but it can also be, and most likely to be, insufficient compression damping.  Seems counter intuitive, but with insufficient compression damping the spring gets driven up further and faster giving that harsh feeling.  If winding back compression damping doesn't solve a harsh ride, screw it up, its most likely insufficient compression that is the problem.

As always John, useful information :028: It was with your help that I got the shock settings to where they are and as I say, Iím pretty happy with them. Just starting to get curious if it can be improved even further. If not, itís still good as is, itís just me chasing perfection more than anything else.
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Offline Z900-WA

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Re: NEW Dave Moss z900 Tuning Video
Reply #46 on: July 11, 2020, 12:54:42 AM
Thanks for posting the updated Z900 Suspension video. I didn't rewatch the 1st one, but unless I'm mis-remembering, I thought his initial impressions of the Z's stock suspension was that it was suited for a 150-160lb rider. Also, I've seen him recommend running 30/30, 32/32, 35/35 & now 36/38 street-track for dunlops in the past. Typically he says lower 30's on Dunlops bc he says they're super stiff carcass tires...

I've got Q3+'s & find 34/34 to be about the best yet for my aggressive style of street riding. I started at the 36/42 manuf. recos. Felt like Fred Flinstone's ride. Then went down to 30/30, handling felt kind of slugglish & a bit mushier, went up 2 & then 2 more. Might try 36 Rr. this weekend but Mid-30's street is a good balance w stock susp. My Rr. tire has about 2k on it & I doubt I'll make it to 3k, guessing I'll prob have to swap it in about 500 miles, sooner if I do another track day on it, but will let you know & take pics when I do.

*PSA* Cycle Gear Swaps tires for $25 each (a Bargain) vs. 60-$75 @ my local shops & they're pricing is usually within $20 of best online deals. I'll never do it myself again!

Re DM. I've never actually seen him ride one, but I think we all know that the stock setup is barely adequate for the average american sized male rider anyway, let alone one that is capable of exploiting the bikes full potential and the level of performance offered by the Z's engine and handling etc. Without a doubt, the stock suspension & tires are the weak links in an otherwise great budget bike that performs really well on the street. It's still a bargain even when you factor in the cost to upgrade the parts and make it a truly track day worthy package, not to mention one that you can still enjoy riding to work during the week nearly as much as in the canyons on the weekend.

One piece of advice for anyone who is considering adjusting the hand controls to improve ergos, which is probably necessary. I did so myself and found that there wasn't much room for adjustment & ended up with a slight scratch to my right fairing as a result. Several months later, after installing my rear sets; i needed to make further adjustments and it dawned on me to try adjusting the position of the bars a bit...

Voila, problem solved, not only were ergos vastly improved, but I was also able to reposition my hand controls to a much larger degree while also eliminating any risk of fairing damage or interference with any other parts of the bike. A slight adjustment of the bars goes a long way, but it's surprisingly easy to do. Once they feel good for both upright & tuck etc. You can fine tune the controls on the bars for a much better fit & feel overall.

Lastly, I'm sure Dave is super knowledgeable and all, but to be honest I'm just not a huge fan of anyone who isn't willing to provide some level of value to their community without asking people to pay them first. Especially experts who flood the internet with clickbait style videos that always seem to end right before they actually address or cover the topic in the title of the video. I even signed up for his website thinking I'd get something of value in return, but no. Even all of the written articles on the site are locked until you pay for annual membership or a recurring subscription fee.  Don't get me wrong, experts deserve to earn a living and to be compensated for the value that their knowledge and experience provides to others, but putting a price tag on every potential piece of wisdom before you can even see if there's any value in it, just seems a bit off-putting to me and as a result dissuaded me from actually paying for the subscription. I could be wrong, but I got the distinct impression that one payment would only provide limited access to info & probably just lead to additional payment tier options...

Fortunately, As a result, I ended up joining the Z900 forum instead where the entire community contributes to help each other and the experts share they're knowledge and insights to actually help their fellow riders, rather than profit from them! This is something you really can't put a price on, but I really appreciate it and the opportunity to return the favor whenever I can. Thanks and if you have any questions lmk.

Offline zed9

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Re: NEW Dave Moss z900 Tuning Video
Reply #47 on: July 11, 2020, 12:05:36 PM
Z900 WA, good observation of DM. As I said I posted it because it featured the z900 but he did himself contradict himself on his second video about the Z's suspension capabilities. I was going to write a comment to him about it, which he does read, but decided against it. He may adjust a lot of suspensions but he is also a salesman.

It's good you found peace with your handlebar by adjusting it. Mine fit me perfectly out of the showroom.

Offline BGE541

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Re: NEW Dave Moss z900 Tuning Video
Reply #48 on: July 12, 2020, 04:20:25 AM
FWIW his videos for me were helpful to tune the stock suspension and tire pressure, ended up at 2 clicks in on both dampening adjustments and bike rides much better/more square rebound and feel.

Offline KellyL

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Re: NEW Dave Moss z900 Tuning Video
Reply #49 on: July 12, 2020, 05:50:46 AM
*Originally Posted by Cazzy_R [+]
You need to pay the subscription to find out.
I had a Dave Moss premium subscription for 2 years. I forgot to turn off the auto-renew, thus the second year.  :164:

There's some interesting stuff to watch if you haven't seen it before, but a lot of information gets recycled and repackaged. Mostly his sidekick filming him setting up bikes for clients. Some dead ends as well, such as a cheap track bike resto that suddenly stopped being filmed half way.

Meh, it was worth it for 12 months of entertainment, but I wouldn't continue subscribing. His website is also buggy.
Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 05:54:56 AM by KellyL