Author Clutch issue or rider issue?  (Read 7189 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • Online echo948   us

    • Z900 Member  ‐    77
    • **
    • Topic Author

    Online echo948

    • Z900 Member
    • **
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 77
    • Bike: 2019 Z900
    • Town / City: Charleston, SC
    • Country: us
    Clutch issue or rider issue?
    on: Jun 04, 2022, 09.00 pm
    Jun 04, 2022, 09.00 pm
    Went out for a ride today; at one point when I shifted from 3rd to 4th at 40-45mph the shift felt very light, almost like shifting from 1st to neutral, and it did not feel like I had any power.  As soon as I noticed, I let off the gas and clutched in.  With the clutch in I could feel like a clicking through the clutch lever.  After coasting a bit I tried going back down to 3rd, no problem.  I then went back up to 4th, making sure to be a little more forceful on the upshift, and no problem.  The rest of the ride had no problems and everything feels fine.  I think this was just caused by me being lazy on the upshift and not lifting quite far enough, but wanted a second opinion. 

  • Offline ras   us

    • Z900 God  ‐    4406
    • *****
      #1

    Offline ras

    • Z900 God
    • *****
    • Posts: 4406
    • Bike: 2021 Versys 10000
    • Town / City: Central Vermont
    • Country: us
    Re: Clutch issue or rider issue?
    Reply #1 on: Jun 04, 2022, 09.10 pm
    Jun 04, 2022, 09.10 pm
    *Originally Posted by echo948 [+]
    I think this was just caused by me being lazy on the upshift and not lifting quite far enough

     :028:

    Also
    I would check chain tension and aim for the tighter side of spec  :821:

  • Offline Merrick   cz

    • Z900 Member  ‐    34
    • **
      #2

    Offline Merrick

    • Z900 Member
    • **
    • Posts: 34
    • Bike: Z900 MY 21
    • Town / City: Sternberk
    • Country: cz
    Re: Clutch issue or rider issue?
    Reply #2 on: Jun 04, 2022, 09.57 pm
    Jun 04, 2022, 09.57 pm
    I used to have the same issue, sometime when I changed a gear up for some reason, I couldn't get the gear in. I was thinking about not enough pressing the clutch or as you said a bit lazy to kick the gear in. Anyway, I changed the shifting patter from road to racing shifting (1st gear is up, the rest of gears are down) and I don't have the issue since.
    My bike: Z900 MY 21 3800km

  • Online echo948   us

    • Z900 Member  ‐    77
    • **
    • Topic Author
    • #3

    Online echo948

    • Z900 Member
    • **
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 77
    • Bike: 2019 Z900
    • Town / City: Charleston, SC
    • Country: us
    Re: Clutch issue or rider issue?
    Reply #3 on: Jun 04, 2022, 10.56 pm
    Jun 04, 2022, 10.56 pm
    *Originally Posted by ras [+]
    :028:

    Also
    I would check chain tension and aim for the tighter side of spec  :821:

    I'll definitely check the chain tension, but why would chain tension affect it?

  • Offline Switches   us

    • Z900 Member  ‐    16
    • **
      #4

    Offline Switches

    • Z900 Member
    • **
    • Posts: 16
    • Bike: 2017 Z900
    • Country: us
    Re: Clutch issue or rider issue?
    Reply #4 on: Jun 04, 2022, 11.07 pm
    Jun 04, 2022, 11.07 pm
    I run into this sometimes when I just botch the shift. It's a false neutral. This article does a decent job of explaining why it can happen. https://www.bikesrepublic.com/featured/false-neutrals-happen/

  • Online echo948   us

    • Z900 Member  ‐    77
    • **
    • Topic Author
    • #5

    Online echo948

    • Z900 Member
    • **
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 77
    • Bike: 2019 Z900
    • Town / City: Charleston, SC
    • Country: us
    Re: Clutch issue or rider issue?
    Reply #5 on: Jun 05, 2022, 02.41 am
    Jun 05, 2022, 02.41 am
    *Originally Posted by Switches [+]
    This article does a decent job of explaining why it can happen. https://www.bikesrepublic.com/featured/false-neutrals-happen/
    Just read the article, that was it exactly! :152:  I've heard of false neutral, but didn't put it together that that's what happened.

  • Online 3alfa3   hr

    • Z900 Master  ‐    803
    • ****
      #6

    Online 3alfa3

    • Z900 Master
    • ****
    • Posts: 803
    • Bike: 2020 Z900
    • Town / City: Zagreb
    • Country: hr
    Re: Clutch issue or rider issue?
    Reply #6 on: Jun 05, 2022, 06.27 am
    Jun 05, 2022, 06.27 am
    *Originally Posted by echo948 [+]
    I'll definitely check the chain tension, but why would chain tension affect it?

    I use 40mm Chain slack from day one and in 42.500km I had 1 or 2 false neutral shifts. It was my lazy shifts, not the Chain tension.
    Last Edit: Jun 05, 2022, 06.29 am by 3alfa3

  • Offline Merrick   cz

    • Z900 Member  ‐    34
    • **
      #7

    Offline Merrick

    • Z900 Member
    • **
    • Posts: 34
    • Bike: Z900 MY 21
    • Town / City: Sternberk
    • Country: cz
    Re: Clutch issue or rider issue?
    Reply #7 on: Jun 05, 2022, 01.53 pm
    Jun 05, 2022, 01.53 pm
    Interesting reading about false neutral, but why it happens always when you shift up, but never down. In my case I changed shifting patter from road to racing shifting and I don't have the problem anymore.
    Now I am thinking when you have road shifting pattern the explanation with the false neutral makes sense. But when I change to racing shift patter the issue is gone. I wonder why the issue is gone. I still must move shift lever up and down like before. Have you noticed that false happen when you are revving up above 6000 rpm and never happen let say at 3000 rpm? I am thinking it may have something to do with the torque. The gear cog may be under full load (6000 rpm and up) and simply as it was described in that article about the false neutral.
    Now when I switched to racing shift pattern, I must push a gear lever down when I want shift gears up (2,3,4,5,6). Even the gear cog is still under full load to kick the gear lever down is much easier, thus I don't have false neutral anymore. When I am shifting gears down (6,5,4,3,2) I must push a gear lever up, however the gear cog is not under full load from the engine. Thus, even if you do not change gear with the foot firmly as it is described in the article the gear change is easy and smooth. It may have to do something with the torque from the engine when it is slowing down to lower rpm, so the torque in now in reverse on the gear cog.
    I am not saying that I am correct, but they are just may thoughts. The racing shift pattern works for me and I grow up on a bike from 80 when all bikes (Jawa and CZ) have had racing shift pattern and just 4 gears to play with.

  • Online 3alfa3   hr

    • Z900 Master  ‐    803
    • ****
      #8

    Online 3alfa3

    • Z900 Master
    • ****
    • Posts: 803
    • Bike: 2020 Z900
    • Town / City: Zagreb
    • Country: hr
    Re: Clutch issue or rider issue?
    Reply #8 on: Jun 05, 2022, 02.41 pm
    Jun 05, 2022, 02.41 pm
    Im too used to 1 down/5 up (decades of riding) and ride only on roads, so, rev matching and downshift (or is it uphsift if other way aroud?  :001: ) would be awkward, not to say that i use gear lever as low as possible because my foot is aperently not as agile as i want (when going up), but just enough for Z900 if lever is lowered as much as possible ( just befor it is problem to shift into first gear from neutral at stops: ball with rubber booth is kicking into peg carrier). And i can't ride without rev matching when downshifting, it's a second nature to me.
    Last Edit: Jun 05, 2022, 02.48 pm by 3alfa3

  • Offline Led Zed 70   us

    • Z900 God  ‐    1021
    • *****
      #9

    Offline Led Zed 70

    • Z900 God
    • *****
    • Posts: 1021
    • Bike: 2017 Z900ABS
    • Town / City: Round Rock
    • Country: us
    Re: Clutch issue or rider issue?
    Reply #9 on: Jun 05, 2022, 03.16 pm
    Jun 05, 2022, 03.16 pm
    I hit a false neutral here and there on the Z also. I do have to remember to not get too light footed when shifting. I have noticed on bikes that are easy to find neutral it happens more than bikes that are super tight and a pain to find neutral. Probably stating the obvious.

     



    rockbound