Author Fuel injection and ECU  (Read 456 times)

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  • Offline Zaniac948   us

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    Fuel injection and ECU
    on: Mar 07, 2023, 06.09 pm
    Mar 07, 2023, 06.09 pm
    In the early eighties when fuel injection was just coming on the market my riding friends and I had some fun conversations about the relative merits of carbs vs fuel inject. Kawasaki's first system seemed to compensate for all the changes testers, like Cycle mag, did to the machines. Carbs then had a non numbered jet system meant to achieve acceptable EPA rules. You could use pin drills but this was not as precise as the manufacturers' numbered replacement jets. Aren't our modern fuel/ECU units much more sophisticated than those early systems? Do they not compensate for exhaust and intake changes? Sense everyone recommends flashing this would indicate they don't. Help me out here Z bothers.  :763:

  • Offline Zaniac948   us

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    Re: Fuel injection and ECU
    Reply #1 on: Mar 08, 2023, 05.23 am
    Mar 08, 2023, 05.23 am
    "brothers" sheepish grin  :012:

  • Offline Cazzy_R   england

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    Re: Fuel injection and ECU
    Reply #2 on: Mar 08, 2023, 10.09 am
    Mar 08, 2023, 10.09 am
    The requirements of the 80's were far different from today. Manufacturers were "allowed" to set their bikes up richer from the factory, The main focus was on noise rather than emissions so a machine off the floor was not running as lean as they do now.
     As you say the EFI has got more sophisticated but so are the safeguards to prevent tampering hence the need to use flashing software to overcome them.

  • Online porkchop   us

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    Re: Fuel injection and ECU
    Reply #3 on: Mar 08, 2023, 04.45 pm
    Mar 08, 2023, 04.45 pm
    My 21 year old ZRX1200 has 69k miles and 4 finicky jetted carbs.
    Once I got it running well years ago with a full system, K+N pods, +4 timing advance- DONíT touch it... just add 91 octane and stabilizer month before Winter storage (it prefers to run better on cheap 87 all Summer) and drain the carbs.
    Whole bike is so easy + basic to work on though, service manuals are your friend.  :028: 
    My Wifeís Ninja + Z no worries on them firing in the Spring, FI is a great thing now.
    I do hit all 3 with some Seafoam / FI cleaner though out the riding season.


  • Offline Zaniac948   us

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    Re: Fuel injection and ECU
    Reply #4 on: Mar 09, 2023, 03.25 am
    Mar 09, 2023, 03.25 am
     :763: for the replies. My 2019 seems, according to my butt dyno, to pull harder when the air is colder and denser. This ties in with the general consensus that the 1st gen Zs are mapped richer than later years. I love fuel injection as carb jetting is a high artform which can consume a lot of time and money.

  • Online kevperro   us

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    Re: Fuel injection and ECU
    Reply #5 on: Mar 09, 2023, 02.05 pm
    Mar 09, 2023, 02.05 pm
    Single-cylinder bikes (dirt bikes) are not that bad to jet.    When you get four cylinders, all running slightly differently, it becomes no fun at all.   

    Our FI system isn't that complicated and the fact that you can have someone simply overwrite the fuel maps makes for fantastic tunning flexibility.     I'm big on keeping things simple.   I don't want ABS on my bike nor traction control, but I would never have bought it without the FI.   

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    Re: Fuel injection and ECU
    Reply #6 on: Mar 09, 2023, 04.57 pm
    Mar 09, 2023, 04.57 pm
    *Originally Posted by kevperro [+]
    I'm big on keeping things simple.   I don't want ABS on my bike nor traction control, but I would never have bought it without the FI.

    Yep.
    Dealership I bought the Wife's Ninja from only had a '19 green with ABS left- I didn't really want it either as no other bike I've ever owned had it.
    They knocked off the $600 difference to make a sale, I turned that around and got 4 years extended warranty (value $680) for the $80.
    So far I've never had to test the ABS in a situation, I guess it'll work?? 

    The "modes", don't need them as simple wrist control + feel is the way I've been riding for 37 years on the street.
    Rely on myself, not the bike. 

  • Online rcannon409   us

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    Re: Fuel injection and ECU
    Reply #7 on: Mar 09, 2023, 06.11 pm
    Mar 09, 2023, 06.11 pm
    The modern systems can make slight compensations for temperature and altitude....that's no problem.

    The systems in the 80's?  Who knows?  None of us had the equipment to see if this was true, or not.  The magazines gave their best guesses.


    Now the bike can make these small changes, but it has to stay within emissions and noise rules.  It has to .  Can you imagine the problems it would cause if Honda or Kawasaki sold bikes that were not compliant? 

    You should read the euro 5 requirements.  The bike has to be compliant 45 seconds after start up.  And it has to stay within those limits. Even at idle. Some of the rules are insane.

    When a good flash is installed, you hope the person flashing is able to eliminate the restrictions and run the bike for performance rather than emissions rules.  Emissions and noise, obviously .  The tuner doesn't know any more than their software will show them.

    As the emissions rules become more strict, the efi system has to be more sophisticated in order to stay within the tougher limits.  Ride by wire is a perfect example of this.  This is easier because  the computer controls the throttle and can hide it's restrictions and units easier than with a cable.  It is a more exact system for emissions. Notice how gas mileage really isn't any better than it was back then.

    We don't gain much as riders other than we get to junk a 2500.00 dollar stock exhaust, with 3 cats, rather than a 1000.00 dollar system like we had in the 80's. We have to pay for all this exactness.






  • Online kevperro   us

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    Re: Fuel injection and ECU
    Reply #8 on: Mar 09, 2023, 11.29 pm
    Mar 09, 2023, 11.29 pm
    *Originally Posted by porkchop [+]
    Yep.
    Dealership I bought the Wife's Ninja from only had a '19 green with ABS left- I didn't really want it either as no other bike I've ever owned had it.
    They knocked off the $600 difference to make a sale, I turned that around and got 4 years extended warranty (value $680) for the $80.
    So far I've never had to test the ABS in a situation, I guess it'll work?? 

    The "modes", don't need them as simple wrist control + feel is the way I've been riding for 37 years on the street.
    Rely on myself, not the bike.

    Same here.... started riding when I was five years old.   I had to use a step stool to get on the bike.   Fifty years of riding and I never thought to myself, "I wish there was a computer that could control my wheels". 

    I just swapped new brake lines and pads on my bike this morning.   I ran a peristaltic pump from the caliper back up to the master cylinder and just let that bleed all the air bubbles out of the system by running it for a couple of hours.   I swapped back and forth a couple of times to make sure I was getting any trapped air out of the voids in the caliper, and that pass-over line that goes over the front fender.     It took forever to get to zero bubbles and looking at the rat nest for ABS I'm sure glad I wasn't dealing with that.   

    Should have a nice firm lever now.   

  • Online rcannon409   us

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    Re: Fuel injection and ECU
    Reply #9 on: Mar 10, 2023, 02.25 am
    Mar 10, 2023, 02.25 am
    What's nice as well is that an ECU flash keeps the altitude and temperature files  as Kawasaki programed  them. Ram air, if your bike has that is dealt with.

    My altitude here can be anywhere from 3500ft up to 12,000.  You don't have to stop and re-jet like we had to on our dirt bikes.  I have 20 jets and 3 slides for my yz 250 two stroke. I don't miss that.

    I love basic, too, but the efi system is so trouble free that I don't see myself buying another bike with carbs. 


     



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